Kui palju on siin ürgse/esivanemate eluviisi pooldajaid?

Pikk postitus bb.com foorumist. Jällegi tegemist ei ole niiväga minu vaadetega, vaid teiste inimeste vaevaga antud teemal. Ma lihtsalt copy’n selle siia huvilistele lugemiseks:

Originally Posted by sawoobley

*lectins*

I’ll post my ideas on lectin below, but I just thought I’d say that even meat contains lectins — they’re sugar-binding proteins. Basically, everything we eat contains lectins (http://www.ajcn.org/content/33/11/2338.full.pdf+html).

Also, some lectins aren’t deactivated by cooking, but most of them are…Lectinology is a really new field in medicine, so I’m not going to come to conclusions regarding the fate of lectins, but I’ll write a bit about them at the end of this post.

Originally Posted by sawoobley

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente…ins/index.html

This article discusses the research for whole grains. Especially related to disease prevention. If it is so bad then we wouldn’t be seeing all these benefits.

Hmm…I don’t like epidemiological studies, but these are very interesting. Yeah, one really begins to question how bad grains are if they show positive effects in epidemilogical studies.

Originally Posted by barbarian1543

He writes that junk, so people will buy his book.

He comes off as trying to help, yet some of his advice is downright dangerous!

I really like the effort of the paleo community — getting people to move, stopping people from being scared of fat, exercising, supplementing with the right stuff. Of course, I very much disagree with the notion that grains and legumes are unhealthy, but you have to give these guys credit for helping people live better lives.

Originally Posted by JohnnyP91

There’s that argument, claiming that in terms of human evolution, gluten nutrition is new (most of the time we ate veggies/fruits and meat)

and therefore, gluten based nutrition is unhealthy (cause’ the neanderthals were hot or somthin’)

what will you say about that?!

1. Darwanian “dogma” shouldn’t be accepted now because of our knowledge of epigenetics (methylation, acetylation, etc.), and *linear* evolution is also refuted by some people.

2. We CANNOT come to conclusions based on the TINY ideas we have about our ancestors. As you know, fossilization is a rare thing, so we can’t just go around saying, “Our ancestors did not eat bread 10k years ago!” There are actually studies that refute this idea.

3. Who says that what our ancestors were doing is right? Obviously, the high infant mortality rate skewed the statistics of the average age back in those days, but we still can’t be 100% certain that this way of eating is optimal.

Really, the amount of knowledge we have about our ancestors is TINY.

Originally Posted by GUNSMAKEMEGIDDY

Can’t really explain the science behind it, but by eliminating grains (and pretty much all carbs and fiber) from my diet I cured my Crohn’s disease and other multiple autoimmune disorders.

That’s not to say grains are bad for everyone and that no one should eat grains, but there seems to be a segment of the population that have had the same experience as me.

Crohn’s might overlap with celiac disease, and depending on the methods used, you may actually have celiac disease and not crohn’s. Anyway, IMO, anyone with an autoimmune disease should try to avoid grains and legumes until he gets better; there is little research on this subject, but I think that’s why people with autoimmune diseases report being better without grains — mostly because autoimmune attacks might overlap and are related to a “leaky gut.”

Anyway, with that out of the way, let’s examine the claims:

Phytates

Alan makes a good point about phytates:

‘”Cereals are the primary sources of copper, manganese, and selenium in most diets and the major source of zinc in many vegetarian diets; flesh floods are the primary source of zinc and secondary source of selenium in omnivorous diets. Despite the apparent lower bioavailability of zinc, copper, manganese, and selenium in vegetarian diets because of the high contents of phytic acid and/or dietary fiber and the low content of flesh foods in the diet, the trace element status of most adult vegetarians appears to be adequate.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8172126

“Although it is clear that vegetarians have lower iron stores, adverse health effects from lower iron and zinc absorption have not been demonstrated with varied vegetarian diets in developed countries, and moderately lower iron stores have even been hypothesized to reduce the risk of chronic diseases.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12936958

“In conclusion, wheat products, except for wheat bran, do not have a negative impact on calcium absorption from the diet.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1941185

“In conclusion, the absorption of zinc was high and not affected by addition of oat bran.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10702590

“Addition of 16 g bran/d to the diet does not seem to impair the mineral absorption from the small intestine except that of Zn.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6288067

“It is concluded that wheat bran and, in particular, the cell-wall polysaccharides of bran, are unlikely to exert a significant effect on mineral absorption in man, in amounts customarily eaten, independently of the effect of phytate present in the bran.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6315050

“Plasma lipids, serum magnesium, ghrelin, and adiponectin concentrations, as well as substrate utilization and body weight, were not significantly changed by fiber intake.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16567814′

Gluten and Gut Permeability

Anyway, let’s see human research on the effect of grains on gut permeability:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/9/23/abstract

“This study shows that the two gluten-associated disorders, CD and GS, are different clinical entities, and it contributes to the characterization of GS as a condition associated with prevalent gluten-induced activation of innate, rather than adaptive, immune responses in the absence of detectable changes in mucosal barrier function.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21224837

‘”Non-celiac gluten intolerance” may exist, but no clues to the mechanism were elucidated.’

Here are some blogs posts by my favorite () blog poster, Chris Masterjohn:

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c…t-ex-vivo.html

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c…mises-and.html

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c…onulin-is.html

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c…y-shorter.html

Gluten is absorbed by healthy people.

Lectins

I’ve been researching lectins for the past four months — they really are a fascinating subject. Anyway, while the research is scarce, I did find a lot of interesting material on this subject.

Anyway, the evidence that lectins are bad for you is very weak, and some studies actually show benefit to some lectins, especially in cancer prevention — even WGA, the most feared of lectins, might have health benefits:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10468292

http://www.springerlink.com/content/fv2kp863u1177q5l/

https://www.novapublishers.com/catal…ducts_id=18877

http://abstracts.aspb.org/pb2011/public/P18/P18005.html

http://www.jstor.org/pss/20172275

I wouldn’t go around bashing the paleo community because, really, they’re trying to get people to stay healthy (and make some mulla), but the claims that grains and legumes are detrimental (of course, moderation…) in a healthy human being are a bit over the top, IMO.

Teaduslikke viiteid on saanud sulle postitada, nii et mustab.

Sina lihtsalt tahad uskuda, mida sa usud. ….ja see meid ju tegelikult ei sega. Miks peaks mulle korda minema, mida sa s88d… sa ei ole minu poeg.

Väga paljud asjad on juba nii ära uuritud, et on juba õpikus ja seal pole enam midagi uurida. Seepärast ei leiagi paljude väga loogiliste asjade kohta uuringuid – tehtud vahetult enne internetiaega. Kõik teavad, kuidas käib munaraku viljastamine, sa ei pea selleks originaaluuringut lugema ” srcset=”/uploads/emoticons/biggrin@2x.png 2x” width=”20″ height=”20″>

Väga paljud asjad on juba nii ära uuritud, et on juba õpikus ja seal pole enam midagi uurida. Seepärast ei leiagi paljude väga loogiliste asjade kohta uuringuid – tehtud vahetult enne internetiaega. Kõik teavad, kuidas käib munaraku viljastamine, sa ei pea selleks originaaluuringut lugema ” srcset=”/uploads/emoticons/biggrin@2x.png 2x” width=”20″ height=”20″>

Ära räägi muudest teemadest. Sa võid ju oma 1930ndate uuringutel põhinevaid raamatuid lugeda. Ma eelistan uuemate uurimustöödega kursis olla.

Õpikutes on igasugu jama. Siiani soovitatakse süsivesikuterohket dieeti, samas kui valku ja rasva tihti allapool keha vajadusi. Ajalooõpikud ka sellist jama täis, et anna aga olla. Õpikud on küll viimane koht, kust adekvaatset infot hankida.

Inimene ikka armastab jalgratast leiutada…ikka ja j2lle, et hyyda: Eureka!

Kuid ma juhin t2helepanu, et teema algataja ei kysinud, mida te yrgesivanemate toitumisest arvate.

Ta tundis huvi, palju meid on.

Selle asemel tulevad r2mpstoidupropageerijad meid ma ei tea kelleks nimetama…

Rämpstoidu propageerijad?

Oeh Aile. Peaks vist Rebase käest uurima, kas ta mind piisavalt võimsaks Modiks teha ei saaks, et sind ära bännida. Pool aega ajad väga tarka juttu – ülejäänud pool aega jahud igasugu tobedusi ja proovid kogu ülejäänud maailma looduslapse ideoloogia järgijateks moondada. Küll pese pead isetehtud seepidega ja nühi hambaid mingite savipastadega ja jumal teab mida veel.

Kui sa tahad kõigest jõust minevikus elada, siis palun. Ma pigem lahkan läbi miljon uut uuringut ning leian neist need mõned, mis muudavad meie arusaama ümbritsevast maailmast. Et me ei peaks elama minekus vaid suudaksime areneda edasi paremuse poolt.

Ning kahjuks ei ole see niivõrd lihtne. Et astuda edasi peame teinekord astuma mitu sammu tagasi. Ning see Paleo suuresti seda ka propageerib – kuid vbl liialt konkreetselt. Vbl piisaks, kui astuksime oma toitumisharjumustes tagasi paar sajandit – mitte mitu aastatuhandet.

Ah savi… tobedad vaidlused need foorumiteemad. ” srcset=”/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x” width=”20″ height=”20″>

Ära räägi muudest teemadest. Sa võid ju oma 1930ndate uuringutel põhinevaid raamatuid lugeda. Ma eelistan uuemate uurimustöödega kursis olla.

Väga teemasse, kahju et sa võrdlusest aru ei saanud. Sa ülehindad “viitamist” ja “viimaseid uuringuid”. Need on toredad, aga see, et ma ei saa viidata alguuringule, mis näitab, et uriini hoitakse just põies, ei tähenda, et seda kuskil mujal hoitaks ” srcset=”/uploads/emoticons/biggrin@2x.png 2x” width=”20″ height=”20″>

Panen siia paar täitsa juhuslikku viidet neile kel aega ja viitsimist palju, lugesin ainult abstractid läbi, süstemaatiliselt pole teemat uurinud, ja eespool olevaid viiteidki korralikult mitte ” srcset=”/uploads/emoticons/biggrin@2x.png 2x” width=”20″ height=”20″>

A paleolithic diet is more satiating per calorie than a mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118562

A Palaeolithic diet improves glucose tolerance more than a Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischaemic heart disease

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17583796

(margariin on siin kahtlane asi aga vahest on hüdrogeenimata?)

Beneficial effects of a Paleolithic diet on cardiovascular risk factors in type 2 diabetes: a randomized cross-over pilot study

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407

Ei.. kusagil peab ju inimene õppima et kõike ei tasu uskuda vaid pildi võiks eri materjalidest kokku sünteesida ” srcset=”/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png 2x” width=”20″ height=”20″>

See on küll rohkem ülikooli töö aga olgu.

Kyllalt on 2hvardavaid lugusid… mis juhtub, kui sa synteesima hakkad ” srcset=”/uploads/emoticons/biggrin@2x.png 2x” width=”20″ height=”20″>

Those, who did their homework and stood against this dogma, were treated accordingly:

1) Kilmer McCully discovered that high homocysteine (not CH level) in the blood is the accurate predictor of atherosclerosis. He was fired because of questioning the CH “thing” and US authorities made it impossible for him to continue his research elsewhere;

2) Finnish dairy company Valio pointed that SF and CH are harmless. They were silenced by severe media attacks which continued for months;

3) Finnish version of Uffe Ravnskov’s book “Cholesterol Myths” was lit on fire on a Finnish national television telecast!

Yes, going against any dogma is dangerous! Burning politically incorrect books reminds me of the actions against humanity during the times of the Great Inquisition and the III Reich.

Kergem variant on, et m6ni III Reichi tyyp sind lihtsalt lollakaks peab.

Holger, sa ajad jälle pas*a. PUNKT.

Mine välja, naudi loodust. ” srcset=”/uploads/emoticons/biggrin@2x.png 2x” width=”20″ height=”20″>

Ma panen teile siia yles Jamie Oliveri k6ne noortele. Ma jagan tema kirge, mis puudutab toitu.

Asi ei ole isegi mitte enam paleos.